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XML News Desk
Co-Inventor of XML Says Office 11 is "A Huge Step Forward for Microsoft"
Co-Inventor of XML Says Office 11 is "A Huge Step Forward for Microsoft"

By: XML News Desk
Jan. 1, 2000 12:00 AM

Now that the newly XML-enabled version of Microsoft Office, code-named "Office 11," is in its first official beta release, XML-J Industry Newsletter went straight to Tim Bray, co-inventor of eXtensible Markup Language, and asked for his exclusive views on this improvement in what Microsoft routinely-if immodestly-characterizes as "the world's leading suite of productivity software."

Asked if he'd been involved at all in the XML-enabling of Office 11, Bray replies that he hadn't: "No, not in the slightest," he assures us. However, he did receive extended hands-on demos of the alpha and beta software, he says, which gave him the opportunity to test-drive and evaluate the suite.

Word Files Are Now Also XML Files

When asked how XML-enabling will make a difference in MS Office, Bray quickly zeroes in on what in his view is the key differentiator in an XML-enabled Office suite vs the current one. "The important thing," he explains, "is that Word and Excel (and of course the new XDocs thing) can export their data as XML without information loss. It seems Word can also edit arbitrary XML languages under the control of an XML Schema, but I'm actually more excited by the notion of Word files also being XML files."

So it's a breakthrough? Bray has no doubts whatsoever: "The XML-enabling of Office was obviously a major investment and is a major achievement," he declares, without hesitation.

"Built around an open, internationalized file format," he continues, warming to his theme, "Office 11 is going to be a huge step forward for management, independent software developers, and Microsoft."

What is the precise significance of the internationalized file format? Bray, who is also CTO and founder of Antarctica Systems Inc, clarifies as follows: "When I say 'open and internationalized' I'm just saying that these are the two most important benefits that occur when you make information available in XML." In other words, he is saying, XML enables the exchange of any form of data across heterogeneous systems, platforms, and applications.

"So it seems to me," he concludes, in delightfully prophetic mode, "that when the huge universe of MS Office documents becomes available for processing by any programmer with a Perl script and a bit of intelligence, all sorts of wonderful new things can be invented that you and I can't imagine."

That's praise indeed, from the man behind XML itself!

Office 11 is expected to ship in mid-2003 after user testing. Geared toward enterprise users, it will contain components compatible with the .NET initiative. The XML technology incorporated in this beta version supposedly allows data to be more easily exchanged and shared between different programs.

If it all works according to plan, this would obviously increase productivity and interconnectivity. How so? Well, organizations of all sizes often store their data without a common format and in a variety of places (for example, CRM databases and accounting systems). As a result, information workers within those organizations have difficulty accessing the data they need, or, if they can locate it, find that the data is in an unsuitable format.

Microsoft's aim with Office 11 is to make connecting and using data simpler and its path to success in this respect is a function of its broad support for standards-based XML.

XML-J Industry Newsletter applauds the initiative and will be continuing to follow this development from a variety of angles in future issues, including bringing you inside insights from within the heart of the Microsoft XML design team itself in Redmond, WA.

Published Jan. 1, 2000— Reads 18,564 — Feedback 106
Copyright © 2000 SYS-CON Media, Inc. — All Rights Reserved.
Syndicated stories and blog feeds, all rights reserved by the author.
About XML News Desk
The XML-Journal News Desk monitors the world of XML and SOA /Web services to present IT professionals with updates on technology advances and business trends, as well as new products and standards.

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Reader Feedback: Page 1 of 8

We have been using the beta version of Office 11. We have thousands of Word documents that we want to convert to XML. While Word 11 provides okay XML capabilities when authoring a Word document, it does little good for already-authored documents. It would take 2 lifetimes to use Word 11 to accomplish this task. We tried xDoc and i4i, but xDoc is too expensive and difficult to learn and i4i is really nothing more than a plug-in that works similarly to Word 11 (in ideology). We have found that a tool by DocSoft called Word2XML works best for us. We modified the software's Docbook XSLT a little and get perfect Docbook XML from it. It took a little work to get what we wanted, but this by far is the quickest and easiest solution we have found.

MS has taked a very big step in changing its Word format to XML. Word is a markup language which is closed, instead XML is very open! The big problem with the word format was that it wasn't clear its use, but well used, meaning hours of study, take the job quite well. Using a open format means more competitors on the arena. It also means that electronic integration of many products are just on the corner. Yes, it's true that there is an open project called OpenOffice but we all must consider that MS has a big, but really big market, and those numbers talk by themselves. OpenOffice will stay strong but MS is still winning for now.

Neither did MS invented anything, nor did they make the PC scene work better. Just had got an amazing amount of money making the worst software I've seen (thanks FUD).

The MSXML (Formely XSD) won

No you didn't. I did!

I thought I invented XML!

Well, they did the same thing with Java, didn't they? Added "enhancements" so programs written using their tools wouldn't run on anything other than MS JVM.

You can be abolutely certain that they will do something similar to XML

I wonder what gonna happen with images embedded in office 11 documents.
I would encapsulate XML (plaintext files) , DTDs and images (binary files) in a cab or zip file, thus reducing the enthropy.

It would be interesting to find out, if Office 11 will use well-known DTD like DocBook or similar. Or is MS going to create its own? Is it going to be a public DTD? Can you plug in other DTDs of your choice in Office 11?

TagLess editor by i4i http://www.i4i.com/product_TE.htm , is a interesting product. It is a plugin for MS Office that lets users create XML documents using Word. And one can use any DTD with TagLess editor. The users get the same fimiliar UI of Word.

well, MS introduced internet activation and this scared a lot of people to upgrade their illegal copy to XP.
How to force people to upgrade? Change the file format.
So kids if you want to do your homework with Word, your beloved copy of Office 2000 will not work anymore.
By the way we also have an open XML format for documents used by authors and publishers isn't it?

The thing that concerns me is whether the DTDs / Schemas will be made public or not.

If Microsoft opts to use public DTDs, complete with a formal public identifier, then I suppose we can regard it as an "open" file format. If you can have access to the DTD then you can write the file format using any text editor. (Sloppy coding notwithstanding.)

However, might Microsoft go the other way and keep the DTD private? If so, where might it reside? It could live on a server in Redmond, and require a password or serial number to use. It might even be embedded in the executable MSOffice binary programs.

I hope the DTDs and/or schemas will be public.

Does Office 11 do anything else other than support XML?

Okay, so the open source community is copying Microsoft. Big Deal. This is done to gain new users. It can be really difficult to get the average user to switch operating systems if it is a totally different experience. But, not only can the average windows user get ALL of their work done on a linux machine. I bet after a little while they will learn to like it better and make it less like windows. There is plenty of innovation going on in the free software community. You'd be surprised if you bothered to take a look. I think it's a real shame when someone can spend their whole life seeing only one side of an argument. With all that aside, I would like to add that pretty much everything that microsoft has ever done has been stolen. It's the nature of the business.

PS - nice name.

Helloooo? Can any of you MS bashers stop hyperventilating for 2 seconds. Neither OpenOffice nor StarOffice support arbitray XML. They ONLY support their specific schema - they are OLD NEWS.

Get with it Sun and support OPEN XML schemas - not just your own version

We need you, you little Chihuaha to tell people we invented Mexican food!

Please come home!

(Note, this is scarchasm - for the benefit of Taco, who is so clueless that he doesn't know Microsoft didn't invent everythng).


Feedback Pages:


Your Feedback
shelle wrote:
xmldudeus wrote: We have been using the beta version of Office 11. We have thousands of Word documents that we want to convert to XML. While Word 11 provides okay XML capabilities when authoring a Word document, it does little good for already-authored documents. It would take 2 lifetimes to use Word 11 to accomplish this task. We tried xDoc and i4i, but xDoc is too expensive and difficult to learn and i4i is really nothing more than a plug-in that works similarly to Word 11 (in ideology). We have found that a tool by DocSoft called Word2XML works best for us. We modified the software's Docbook XSLT a little and get perfect Docbook XML from it. It took a little work to get what we wanted, but this by far is the quickest and easiest solution we have found.
Henry Villca wrote: MS has taked a very big step in changing its Word format to XML. Word is a markup language which is closed, instead XML is very open! The big problem with the word format was that it wasn't clear its use, but well used, meaning hours of study, take the job quite well. Using a open format means more competitors on the arena. It also means that electronic integration of many products are just on the corner. Yes, it's true that there is an open project called OpenOffice but we all must consider that MS has a big, but really big market, and those numbers talk by themselves. OpenOffice will stay strong but MS is still winning for now.
hercom wrote: Neither did MS invented anything, nor did they make the PC scene work better. Just had got an amazing amount of money making the worst software I've seen (thanks FUD). The MSXML (Formely XSD) won
pbnyc wrote: No you didn't. I did!
Buckwheat wrote: I thought I invented XML!
Alex Fisher wrote: Well, they did the same thing with Java, didn't they? Added "enhancements" so programs written using their tools wouldn't run on anything other than MS JVM. You can be abolutely certain that they will do something similar to XML
Juan Martin Krohn wrote: I wonder what gonna happen with images embedded in office 11 documents. I would encapsulate XML (plaintext files) , DTDs and images (binary files) in a cab or zip file, thus reducing the enthropy.
Saqib Ali wrote: It would be interesting to find out, if Office 11 will use well-known DTD like DocBook or similar. Or is MS going to create its own? Is it going to be a public DTD? Can you plug in other DTDs of your choice in Office 11? TagLess editor by i4i http://www.i4i.com/product_TE.htm , is a interesting product. It is a plugin for MS Office that lets users create XML documents using Word. And one can use any DTD with TagLess editor. The users get the same fimiliar UI of Word.
Michele Costabile wrote: well, MS introduced internet activation and this scared a lot of people to upgrade their illegal copy to XP. How to force people to upgrade? Change the file format. So kids if you want to do your homework with Word, your beloved copy of Office 2000 will not work anymore. By the way we also have an open XML format for documents used by authors and publishers isn't it?
Jimmy Riddle wrote: The thing that concerns me is whether the DTDs / Schemas will be made public or not. If Microsoft opts to use public DTDs, complete with a formal public identifier, then I suppose we can regard it as an "open" file format. If you can have access to the DTD then you can write the file format using any text editor. (Sloppy coding notwithstanding.) However, might Microsoft go the other way and keep the DTD private? If so, where might it reside? It could live on a server in Redmond, and require a password or serial number to use. It might even be embedded in the executable MSOffice binary programs. I hope the DTDs and/or schemas will be public.
Colin Banfield wrote: Does Office 11 do anything else other than support XML?
mark wrote: Okay, so the open source community is copying Microsoft. Big Deal. This is done to gain new users. It can be really difficult to get the average user to switch operating systems if it is a totally different experience. But, not only can the average windows user get ALL of their work done on a linux machine. I bet after a little while they will learn to like it better and make it less like windows. There is plenty of innovation going on in the free software community. You'd be surprised if you bothered to take a look. I think it's a real shame when someone can spend their whole life seeing only one side of an argument. With all that aside, I would like to add that pretty much everything that microsoft has ever done has been stolen. It's the nature of the business. PS - nice name.
Sam Lowry wrote: Helloooo? Can any of you MS bashers stop hyperventilating for 2 seconds. Neither OpenOffice nor StarOffice support arbitray XML. They ONLY support their specific schema - they are OLD NEWS. Get with it Sun and support OPEN XML schemas - not just your own version
Taco Bell wrote: We need you, you little Chihuaha to tell people we invented Mexican food! Please come home! (Note, this is scarchasm - for the benefit of Taco, who is so clueless that he doesn't know Microsoft didn't invent everythng).
Alex wrote: "Microsoft is evil" - pretty standard logic for this club of paranoics.
Eric wrote: "XML-J Industry Newsletter applauds the initiative and will be continuing to follow this development from a variety of angles in future issues" You'd have more credibility if you didn't write like a breathless intern for an advertising company. Is this news? Or did Microsoft hand you this interview lock, stock and barrel? Aside from the breathy rewview, it leaves several quesionts. 1: Does Microsoft REALLY follow open, industry standadrs? Or do they break them to only work with Windows, like they did with Kerberos, and with Java and with all sorts of other things. Remember the refrain? "Windows isn't done until Lotus won't run?" 2: Why is this significant news since Office did XML before - supposedly. 3: Why is everyone so skeptical?
George wrote: its a shame that most of the responses are negative. Microsoft seem to be doing what most people want, yet they are still not happy. Personally, I see this as a good thing, and in the big picture, its great news for all Microsoft users.
Someone wrote: What's the buzzing about the 'openoffice supports XML now' stuff, I'am asking 'what you can do with your 'nice' all the bells and whistles openoffice' - and answering that almost nothing than type text etc. Microsoft Office is by far superior product compared to anything in 'productivity area' categoria. It has object oriented etc. it is easy to program with the VBA, so it can be 'used' in many more ways than you can imagine - so stop this childids whining and think before. XML is great standard, but it does not fit every purpose, just only to express content of the document, so there might be binary parts like the VBA modules, but so what - I am sure that you openoffice people can't do nothing with those parts.
wrote: >Think of it: when you exchange files >with other businesses, you have two >realistic choices of file formats: >Office or plaintext >I think PDF is a viable (growing even) >third option. Adobe is "evil" just like >MS (remeber Sklyarov)... regardless, PDF >is nice and it works well, and the files >are way smaller than word docs. Why even go as far as PDF? PostScript works just fine!
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