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Sun ONE Web Services Strategy 'Not Just a Reactionary Technology to NET' Sun's top marketing honcho throws the dictionary at
Sun ONE Web Services Strategy 'Not Just a Reactionary Technology to NET' Sun's top marketing honcho throws the dictionary at

By: Java News Desk
Jan. 1, 2000 12:00 AM

(April 5, 2002) - Asked at JavaOne, by Java Developer's Journal editor-in-chief Alan Williamson, whether Sun's entire Sun ONE "unified software strategy" wasn't perhaps just a reactionary move on Sun's part after having been caught on the hop by Microsoft, the group marketing manager of Sun Microsystems reached for a new stealth weapon: the English language.

Admitting that the criticism is one he has heard often, Sun's Bill Roth responded to Williamson's question in defiant terms.

".NET in my mind is a very irresponsible thing to do," he told Williamson, "because it's basically forcing a huge asymptotic shift onto developers, onto customers."

(As every Java, XML, and Web services developer may or may not know, an asymptote is a line whose distance to a given curve tends to zero. An asymptote may or may not intersect its associated curve. This is maybe the first time in history that Microsoft has been charged not with monopolism but with asymptotism.)

Roth went on to contrast the Sun Microsystems approach with Microsoft's 'you-must-do-it-our-way-or-else' revolution.

"What we have done with Sun One is to take a very evolutionary approach," Roth explained. "and we're actually being successful with real customers today. You look at the Department of Defense-- the world's largest non-consumer portal--you look at LLBean.com, you look at the State of New Jersey, at the government of Singapore...there are people who are doing real Web services today, even if it's only [a] portal with XML integration in the background."

Pressed by Williamson for a timeline, Roth outlined Sun's three-phase roadmap for Web services. Phase One (the next 12-18 months) is "when people just integrate the stuff they have." Phase Two (another 12-18/24 months) is "when people begin to put services, when appropriate, into directories that will be shared among known trusted parties." Phase Three, what Sun refers to as the federated "cloud" of directories, Roth asserted, is "a phase that will last for quite a while."

Meaning, in other words, that we'll be waiting for Web services proper until 2006? Roth concurred, saying: "We are 36-48 months away from the science fiction of the universal connectedness of Web services... .There are no actual implementations of any substance at the moment."

The reason, he continued, is simple enough: money - or rather, lack of it. "My own view on this is that innovation has to be fueled by something. We had a lot of innovation from 1995 to mid-2000 fueled by excess capital thrown off by the boom. Now there's not enough excess capital to fuel the innovation."

"This is clearly a very important technology," Roth concluded. "As soon as the market corrects itself, this stuff will take off."

Leaving unanswered, in reality, the question of which technology the Web services "stuff" will be built with when that moment arrives - Sun's, Microsoft's. . .or both. But Roth did mention that the Sun ONE Starter Kit produced by his own group, and available free on CD at the show, would hopefully be playing its part in juicing up the role of Java in the Web services space.

"The coolest area is really in the Web services tools area," Roth also asserted, referring to third-party tools created by some of the top vendors currently aligned with Java. "Whether it's what SilverStream are producing, or Systinet, or Cape Clear, it's these things that will help enable downstream development and really make Web services become a reality."

Unless developers succumb first to that asymptotic shift enforced from Redmond!

Published Jan. 1, 2000— Reads 4,531 — Feedback 3
Copyright © 2000 SYS-CON Media, Inc. — All Rights Reserved.
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Reader Feedback: Page 1 of 1

I respond to the person who is going off Java to .NET, since servers, workstations, commputers, networking protocols (i.e. everything from source to destination) is not, nor will it ever be running only Executables on Intel CPU's and Microsoft's O/S's, how will you be able to service these 30% of your customers when you write code in non-standard, non-open source, microsoft only renditions of what was (originally) a Java theme? How will you proudly carry the "Cross platform Flag" to these important technology and financial customer resources? How will .net code written today be grandfathered when MS Corp only "supports" development in current-minus-one releases? Or, as is happening with WinNT and Win2K today, stops supporting hooks to specific legacy data resources that drive everything from scientific and multimedia powerhouses to Government agencies to the largest financial powerhouses in Europe, the U.S. and Asia? Seems you have a marriage of convenience based upon the sole proposition that all your users can and will be(or quickly become) Intel/Microsoft or they are unimportant. I find that kind of attitude discomforting when applied in general terms across the board. Many of these lareger, or more mobile customers do not appreciate the added complexity ans security instabilities on, say, Microsoft Outlook, MS and Win versions of DHCP/DNS, to name some. do you think you are going to force them to go that route too? You are going to dictate Memory requirements, disk space and other related Workstation stuff as well, don't you think? Is this type of alienation "the Right Thing To Do" to your Customers? I have ethical problems with your "coding convenience" being the only (or reputed Core-) Element used to drive your work and product design. REB.

Steven,
Will I be able to run my nice .NET apps on FreeBSD, Linux, Mac OS/X, Solaris, NetBSD, OpenBSD, HP-UX or anywhere there's a CLR?? You fail, miserably, to understand that a lot of developers/Sys Admins/etc do NOT want to run enterprise class apps on Windows 2000/XP. They want the freedom to NOT pay for an OS (a la Linux/BSD) since budgetting might be an issue. Also, perhaps they just want to run their apps on the best hardware money can buy and use a "stable", fast O/S that might be FREE or simply "scales" well. Can you not understand this??

I love my Delphi too, and I'm glad as hell it's out on Linux meaning that I can also run my apps in BSD emulation mode. Let me see you do that with VB, etc. I'll be a believer when the CLR is ported to all those O/Ss above. Then its safe to say that Java may be in trouble -- just a little of course!!

All in all a nice and eloquent defense of what IS just a reactionary upgrade to Java. No matter which way you cut it, or how you say it, Sun is going to have to find a way to contend with .NET in order to survive as a mainstay. Having developed in Java, Delphi, C and MS platforms for ten years now, I have often relied on the strengths of various platforms for differing projects. However since the inception of .NET, Java (as SUN sees it) has nearly dropped off my list. I can develop applications that are simpler, more efficient, faster, cleaner and that are more logical with the .NET framework. Combining my multi-language talent into one platform to bring together a solid service/app that utilizes the strengths of the different languages that each component or module is programmed in is awesome! The fact that I can debug across all these languages in the .NET platform is a tremendous help. Add to this that VB (which I've avoided like the plague for years) is now truly an O.O. language that makes since: Proper error handling, array indexing, much improved data usage to state a few. I would venture to say that VB.NET has finally surpassed Delphi in the area of database desktop application development (for those of you who still do that sort of thing :)) Java is not dead, by no means. I will continue to develop in a “Java style” language, however it will be J-sharp under the .NET platform, allowing me to quickly and easily plug in and debug pieces in C-sharp, VB, C,…. MS has really come out with an innovative advancement in the way I do my job and service my clients, and I for one thank them for it. A little word game from SUN doesn’t change the fact that .NET is (right now) the best product out there.

Steven Jent
Senior Developer


Your Feedback
Ron Brown wrote: I respond to the person who is going off Java to .NET, since servers, workstations, commputers, networking protocols (i.e. everything from source to destination) is not, nor will it ever be running only Executables on Intel CPU's and Microsoft's O/S's, how will you be able to service these 30% of your customers when you write code in non-standard, non-open source, microsoft only renditions of what was (originally) a Java theme? How will you proudly carry the "Cross platform Flag" to these important technology and financial customer resources? How will .net code written today be grandfathered when MS Corp only "supports" development in current-minus-one releases? Or, as is happening with WinNT and Win2K today, stops supporting hooks to specific legacy data resources that drive everything from scientific and multimedia powerhouses to Government agencies to the largest financial powerhou...
Romulus007 wrote: Steven, Will I be able to run my nice .NET apps on FreeBSD, Linux, Mac OS/X, Solaris, NetBSD, OpenBSD, HP-UX or anywhere there's a CLR?? You fail, miserably, to understand that a lot of developers/Sys Admins/etc do NOT want to run enterprise class apps on Windows 2000/XP. They want the freedom to NOT pay for an OS (a la Linux/BSD) since budgetting might be an issue. Also, perhaps they just want to run their apps on the best hardware money can buy and use a "stable", fast O/S that might be FREE or simply "scales" well. Can you not understand this?? I love my Delphi too, and I'm glad as hell it's out on Linux meaning that I can also run my apps in BSD emulation mode. Let me see you do that with VB, etc. I'll be a believer when the CLR is ported to all those O/Ss above. Then its safe to say that Java may be in trouble -- just a little of course!!
Steven Jent wrote: All in all a nice and eloquent defense of what IS just a reactionary upgrade to Java. No matter which way you cut it, or how you say it, Sun is going to have to find a way to contend with .NET in order to survive as a mainstay. Having developed in Java, Delphi, C and MS platforms for ten years now, I have often relied on the strengths of various platforms for differing projects. However since the inception of .NET, Java (as SUN sees it) has nearly dropped off my list. I can develop applications that are simpler, more efficient, faster, cleaner and that are more logical with the .NET framework. Combining my multi-language talent into one platform to bring together a solid service/app that utilizes the strengths of the different languages that each component or module is programmed in is awesome! The fact that I can debug across all these languages in the .NET platform is a tremendou...
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